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Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter

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seabiscuit

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Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« on: November 19, 2013, 12:49:58 PM »
The decision is in.  The Supreme Court found in favor of the school district, 4-3.  Here's the Columbus Dispatch article and related links to the actual court documents.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/11/19/1119-freshwater-firing-upheld.html
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 01:59:55 PM by seabiscuit »
"The pen is mightier than the sword", Edward Bulwer-Lytton

Imagine

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 12:53:37 PM »
Seabiscuit, that isn't a Dispatch article.... and it doesn't work.
Sometimes MVOhio feels like a group therapy session being held in the middle of a 3-ring circus.

seabiscuit

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2013, 02:00:46 PM »
Oops!  Don't know how I did that!   Fixed it now.
"The pen is mightier than the sword", Edward Bulwer-Lytton

cateyes

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 02:01:31 PM »
maybe she is working...so here is a link to Columbus Dispatch

Supreme Court upholds firing of Freshwater in religious-symbols

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/11/19/1119-freshwater-firing-upheld.html


The decision is in.  The Supreme Court found in favor of the school district, 4-3.  Here's the Columbus Dispatch article and related links to the actual court documents.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/11/19/1119-freshwater-firing-upheld.html

cateyes

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 02:02:40 PM »
hey the other link..did that have the case in it also..could ya post it..I was going to go to it also



Oops!  Don't know how I did that!   Fixed it now.

seabiscuit

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 02:03:13 PM »
Here's Dick Hoppe's discussion on Panda's Thumb regarding the decision for anyone who is interested.

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2013/11/freshwater-ohio-2.html
"The pen is mightier than the sword", Edward Bulwer-Lytton

seabiscuit

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 02:05:12 PM »
Here it is:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/downloads/2013/11/Read_the_Supreme_Courtxs_decision_on_the_Freshwater_case.pdf

The link is right below Freshwater's picture on the Dispatch article if you have any problems opening the link from here.
"The pen is mightier than the sword", Edward Bulwer-Lytton

seabiscuit

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 02:13:28 PM »
maybe she is working...so here is a link to Columbus Dispatch

Supreme Court upholds firing of Freshwater in religious-symbols

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/11/19/1119-freshwater-firing-upheld.html


Actually, I was carving 9 hams for the football banquet tonight.  That's a lot of carving!  Thankfully, I'm done now but back to work I go!
"The pen is mightier than the sword", Edward Bulwer-Lytton

Imagine

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 02:25:59 PM »
Here's the important part of that decision:

Quote
We agree with the board and find that there is ample support for Freshwater’s termination based upon insubordination. We resolve this case solely as a teacher-employment-termination case governed by R.C. 3319.16, which sets forth standards and procedures for termination of teaching contracts by boards of education. We need not address the various constitutional issues raised by Freshwater, because we resolve this appeal on an other-than-constitutional ground.

In other words, they looked at it as an employee issue and refused to look at the issue of religion.

It's a narrow ruling that does not really have broad implications.


I like that.
Sometimes MVOhio feels like a group therapy session being held in the middle of a 3-ring circus.

cateyes

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 04:00:38 PM »
  well the judges didnt all agree....that speaks

Wonder if Freshwater is going to go to the  U S Supreme Court now...

the dissenting votes, comments were interesting


Dissenting Justice Terrence O’Donnell said he found insufficient evidence for insubordination by Freshwater. O’Donnell said the case involves “a veteran science teacher singled out by the Mt. Vernon City School District Board of Education because of his willingness to challenge students in his science classes to think critically about evolutionary theory and to permit them to discuss intelligent design and to debate creationism in connection with the presentation of the prescribed curriculum on evolution.”

He said Freshwater should be reinstated with back pay.

Since evolution is a controversial topic, and the school district’s bylaws and policies allow teachers to address controversial issues that come up in class, Freshwater’s behavior “to challenge students to think critically about evolutionary theory” was proper, O’Donnell wrote.

“Freshwater permitted his students to raise these questions and also to debate among themselves evolution, intelligent design, and creationism, but he did not participate in those debates,” O’Donnell said. “Further, the evidence vindicates Freshwater’s teaching methods because it demonstrates that his students learned evolutionary theory as mandated by the official curriculum. …
  • nly Freshwater exceeded the state goal of 75 percent of his students passing the science portion of the Ohio Achievement Test. Even more striking is the fact that 89 percent of his students passed the life science section, which assessed, among other topics, students’ knowledge of evolutionary theory.”



Imagine

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2013, 05:36:38 PM »
I doubt the current court would accept Freshwater's case if he tried.

...and if they did choose to accept it, they also have a track record of very narrow rulings.
Sometimes MVOhio feels like a group therapy session being held in the middle of a 3-ring circus.

phred

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2013, 07:24:25 PM »
Here's the important part of that decision:

Quote
We agree with the board and find that there is ample support for Freshwater’s termination based upon insubordination. We resolve this case solely as a teacher-employment-termination case governed by R.C. 3319.16, which sets forth standards and procedures for termination of teaching contracts by boards of education. We need not address the various constitutional issues raised by Freshwater, because we resolve this appeal on an other-than-constitutional ground.

In other words, they looked at it as an employee issue and refused to look at the issue of religion.

It's a narrow ruling that does not really have broad implications.


I like that.

       I do too.  The core issue was insubordination, not doing what
       he agreed to do and signed a contract to do.

         

phred

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2013, 07:27:18 PM »
maybe she is working...so here is a link to Columbus Dispatch

Supreme Court upholds firing of Freshwater in religious-symbols

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/11/19/1119-freshwater-firing-upheld.html


Actually, I was carving 9 hams for the football banquet tonight.  That's a lot of carving!  Thankfully, I'm done now but back to work I go!

        I think your thread here was the first to break the news
        in this area.  :lol:

        And do have a good time tonight at the banquet !
 

speedy

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2013, 07:39:10 PM »
Here's the important part of that decision:

Quote
We agree with the board and find that there is ample support for Freshwater’s termination based upon insubordination. We resolve this case solely as a teacher-employment-termination case governed by R.C. 3319.16, which sets forth standards and procedures for termination of teaching contracts by boards of education. We need not address the various constitutional issues raised by Freshwater, because we resolve this appeal on an other-than-constitutional ground.

In other words, they looked at it as an employee issue and refused to look at the issue of religion.

It's a narrow ruling that does not really have broad implications.


I like that.

       I do too. The core issue was insubordination, not doing what
       he agreed to do and signed a contract to do.

       
I guess there were too many people trying to shove another agenda and it took the Supreme Court of Ohio to get to the point.............

But I wonder if this will be the end??????   
All comments posted by speedy are merely opinions. These opinions should not be construed in any manner which suggest that they are threatening. All posts are in jest and protected by Freedom of Speech.  As such, not subject to subpoena, criminal charges, civil charges and the like.

fredlake2

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Re: Supreme Court Decision~Freshwater Matter
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2013, 07:44:01 PM »
Speedy says:

"But I wonder if this will be the end??????"

One Can Only Hope!!!!!!!!

 :camera:

 

anything